In this episode, we talk to Elizabeth Earnshaw about how we distribute and manage the "mental load" we carry within our relationships, how our "shoulds" might be keeping us stuck, and how to more effectively communicate and connect with others, even in the most difficult conversations.
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Over the last decade, Elizabeth Earnshaw (LMFT) has become one of today's most trusted relationship teachers. Elizabeth is a renowned Gottman therapist, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT), Clinical Fellow of The American Association of Marriage & Family Therapy (MA), and influential Instagram therapist who has helped transform countless relationships. She is the Head Therapist at Actually, where she works to make relational wellness mainstream and accessible. She also owns A Better Life Therapy in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, supporting clinicians who are helping couples every day. Out on November 30, 2021, Elizabeth's debut book, I WANT THIS TO WORK, is a trustworthy, inclusive guide to navigating the most challenging relationship issues we face. Couples will learn to work with three challenges they must tackle to repair and strengthen their relationships: conflict, healing, and connection. Culturally inclusive, LGBTQIA+ friendly, and written for both married and unmarried couples, this book brings an accessible guide to healing relationships and creating enduring intimacy. For more information, please visit www.elizabethearnshaw.com. Elizabeth's social media handles are: @lizlistens and @abetterlifetherapy.
Memorable Moments:
3:02 The mental load is that work that we have to do that's not physical, but that keeps a life, a relationship, a family running. So anything from having to remember, having to delegate, having to pay attention to dynamics, you know, noticing how people are feeling, if they're getting along, if they're happy in a situation, those are all things that are in the mental load.
3:41 The problem becomes when only one person is shouldering that mental load and they didn't fully agree to do that.
4:30 One thing when I'm working with premarital couples that we talk about a lot is for them to explore this idea of mental load, because it often doesn't really feel problematic until there's a lot of layered responsibilities.
7:16 If you are suffocating under the mental load, you have to be willing to let your partner do it in their way, as long as it gets done. And that might mean that you come home and you cringe because the way that the person they chose to do landscaping didn't do it the right way. But you have to take a deep breath and recognize that the bigger picture is that you're getting a break.
8:55 So my job in this situation is to keep expressing that I'm frustrated, let my partner know that I'm really looking forward to the way that they're resolving this and all of that kind of stuff, but like allowing him to truly deal with it. Which is really hard, and when I work with couples, a lot of people will be like, “but it means that our house isn't going to look right.” And I'm like, “yes, I totally get that.” And it takes a period of time to readjust, to giving some of this up and seeing that most of the time, it truly does work out.
9:52 Couples get themselves in really messy spots when they start getting into this, it's almost like a stubbornness, where they're saying, I'm not going to talk about it because they should. I'm not going to bring that up because they should know better. I'm not going to go to their parents house anymore because their parents shouldn't act that way. I'm not going to let my partner know that they bummed me out because they should already know that; who wouldn't know that?
10:18 The second you start to get to that place, you get into a place that I call willfulness. Where you have put your feet in the ground, you're digging your heels in and you're saying, I'm just going to sit still here until you please me. The problem is, if your partner truly knew, if they did, most of the time they would do the right thing. So if, if they really did know about the mental load, most of the time they'll want to talk to you about it. If they do know, and they still don't care to do it, then that's actually really important information for you to hear.
12:02 And when we start thinking in the shoulds, what we do is we really block out communication and we also tend to then shame the other person. Because if you should know something or you should do something, then it means that you've made a mistake, right? Because you didn't do it or you didn't know it.
13:19 So difficult conversations are going to be everywhere during the holiday season. I think they always are, but especially now, because people have to decide what they're thinking about their health, what they feel comfortable with, what they feel disappointed by and adding that on to the layers of disappointment, discomfort, sadness, grief, all of that, that has already happened over the past year and some, right? So it's a lot. Something that is really, really important for people to be able to do when they're approaching a difficult conversation is to know how to enter it gently. And to enter it from a space where you want your partner to be your ally. You're not entering it immediately seeing them as the opposition.
14:09 What happens with really tough conversations sometimes is that we feel so anxious. We feel so overwhelmed, so worried that we're not going to get what we need, that we already address the other person like they're our enemy.
14:49 So if we start from an offensive position, we can not expect the other person to be in a neutral position. But we often act really surprised when they're defensive.
15:58 Let the other person talk first, because as soon as you let the other person talk, their defenses are down.
17:51 It takes the ability to have other awareness and self-awareness to be gentle and firm. If you don't have both of those awarenesses, what happens is you are too far on one side or the other.
18:42 But when you're having a tough conversation with your partner, you want to try to stay in this place of: I still see you as a human being with feelings, with needs, with thoughts. I'm still curious about you. I want to understand where you're coming from. And, I see myself as a person with thoughts and needs. And I want you to be curious about me.
21:04 Human beings are wired to connect with other people, but we're also really wired for aggression too. So we are nuanced, we like to fight people and we like to love people. Neither one is actually the more dominant trait, they're both there.
24:10 So in our everyday interactions, we want to increase the amount that we're turning towards, because what research has shown us is that when people are turning towards their relationships, and I think this is pretty obvious, tend to be happier.
24:56 In the big picture with our communities, we want to create connection, not isolation and distance. In our intimate partnerships, obviously you want connection. So you want to really look for the ways in which you can turn towards.
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This podcast is hosted by Allison Walsh and Dr. Angela Phillips. It is produced by Allison Walsh, Ashley Tate, and Nicole LaNeve. For more information or if you’re interested in being a guest on this podcast, please visit www.therecoveryvillage.com/dearmindyoumatter.
Allison: Hello and welcome to the Dear Mind, You Matter Podcast. My name is Allison Walsh, I am a long time mental health advocate and Vice President at Advanced Recovery Systems. On each episode I will be joined by my colleague and clinical expert, Dr. Angela Phillips. This show along with our mental health and wellness app Nobu, are just some of the ways we are working to provide you with some actionable tips to take really good care of yourself each and every day.
So sit back, relax, and grab your favorite note taking device. It's time to fill your mind with things that matter
All right, Liz. Thanks so much for being on our show today. Would you mind sharing a little bit more about yourself with our audience?
Liz: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Liz Earnshaw and I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I'm the head therapist at a company called Actually where we work on premarital counseling.
I have worked in the field for over a decade, and so I am totally obsessed with relationships. I also am a mom and I'm a wife, so I am obsessed with my own relationships as well and have to navigate all of the things that everybody else has to navigate when it comes to all that fun stuff.
Angela: Oh, boy. I can only imagine how much the people in your life love that you are obsessed with relationships.
I constantly get that question, but before I sort of, as we're jumping into things here, one of the things that, um, Alison and I were talking about the other day is the component where you talk a lot about mental load and really make it super relevant to how it affects relationships. And so before we kind of get into that a little bit more, can you explain to our audience what mental load is and then how to know, like, if you're shouldering it in your relationship, can we start there?
Liz: Absolutely, and it's really funny that we're starting there and also talking about how weird it must be for the people in my life to deal with me.
Angela: Right
Liz: I will say that my husband having to listen to me, audio record my book was the best. So he did the audio recording. It was the best thing, because he had to listen to the entire mental load section, which we've already talked about before, but he walked away and he was like, okay, I get it. I get it. I'm going to keep working on this.
So the mental load is that work that we have to do that's not physical, but that keeps a life, a relationship, a family running. So anything from having to remember, having to delegate, having to pay attention to dynamics, you know, noticing how people are feeling, if they're getting along, if they're happy in a situation, those are all things that are in the mental load.
No matter what we do, we are always going to have a mental load. Like that just exists. Somebody has to remember that somebody's birthday is tomorrow. Someone has to remember to put the permission slip in the folder.
The problem becomes when only one person is shouldering that mental load and they didn't fully agree to do that. So there are actually relationships where people consciously agree and it's like, okay, I'm going to take care of remembering what gets done in the house. You're going to do this other stuff. That usually works out.
It doesn't work out when it feels unfair. And so what's really, really important for couples to talk about is, is the way that we're navigating the mental load, is it feeling fair between the two of us?
Allison: Right, and I'm sure that you hear a lot of built up resentment and frustration and anxiety that builds up over time that I'm sure folks reach out to you for. So that, that makes complete sense.
Liz: Absolutely, and one thing when I'm working with premarital couples that we talk about a lot is for them to explore this idea of mental load, because it often doesn't really feel problematic until there's a lot of layered responsibilities. So it's usually fairly obvious early on who's taking the mental load because they are the one who kind of realizes that if they want to go to the restaurant next week, we probably have to make the reservation now or whatever it is, but it doesn't feel bad.
It starts to feel bad when there's kids, a mortgage, house to clean, jobs, all sorts of stuff. So the earlier you talk about it, the better, because like you said, if you don't talk about it, it usually results in a ton of resentment.
Angela: Right, so it sounds like, which I hear all the time is, the key to addressing the issue is communication. But my more direct way of asking this question is, so if you are the one that feels maybe like you're disproportionately carrying this mental load, what steps could you take towards addressing this? Like with your partner or with those that you share this load with?
Liz: The first step is fairly annoying because you have to be the one to have the mental load, to think about having the conversation in the first place and you have to be the one to research it, just like you're currently always doing. And I say, you have to still do it anyway, even if you're thinking, well, I shouldn't be the one that has to do that. It's not my job. They should know that they should help me around the house. Unfortunately, you do have to be the one that has a willingness to bring it up if you're noticing that it's happening and you have to let your partner know. And I would use the words like I've learned about something called a mental load and it's something that is starting to really feel like a huge burden to me. And I really don't want to resent you. I don't want us to fight anymore.
You could even cite ways that it's come up. You know, for example, you might say, you know, I totally freaked out at you last week and I slammed the door and I really think that, that has a lot to do with this mental load stuff, and I would love for you to read about it. So while you're having to bring it up, you're also starting to encourage the other person to do their own research, to read about it on their own. You could send some articles and then find a time to sit down and talk about it.
The second thing that I recommend beyond that is that people who carry the mental load tend to also be people that like things to be done in a certain way. And I'm saying this as one of those people, myself. So I like to carry the mental load sometimes even though I say I don't like it because I like to be the one that calls the landscaper, because I'm going to pick the landscaper that pulls the weeds the right way.
If you are suffocating under the mental load, you have to be willing to let your partner do it in their way, as long as it gets done. And that might mean that you come home and you cringe because the way that the person they chose to do landscaping, didn't do it the right way. But you have to take a deep breath and recognize that the bigger picture is that you're getting a break.
Allison: So I'm laughing on the other end of this response right now, because your example of the weed picker was like the core argument, the last several weeks at our house, because my husband picked the landscaper. They're not pulling my weeds and now I am, on the weekends. And like, that drives me crazy. So yes, I will. Um, and I will also take your advice because maybe sometimes I'm not as direct and I probably would have just left an article with a highlighted passage about mental load instead of addressing it. Next to the coffee, like you can do some light reading, maybe take this.
Liz: I love that. I love it. Cause you know, the reason I gave that example is because it's the same argument my husband and I have had this past week where he didn't want to hire a landscaper because he said he would do it. But I've been carrying the load of seeing the weeds every week.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't stand it. Why aren't you making sure that this gets taken care of? And I started researching landscapers and I stopped myself and I was like, no, you have to practice what you preach. My life is okay with the weeds, to be honest. It's going to be so much more stressful if I'm navigating getting the weeds dealt with.
So my job in this situation is to keep expressing that I'm frustrated, let my partner know that I'm really looking forward to the way that they're resolving this and all of that kind of stuff, but like allowing him to truly deal with it. Which is really hard, and when I work with couples, a lot of people will be like, but it means that our house isn't going to look right. And I'm like, yes, I totally get that. And it takes a period of time to readjust, to giving some of this up and seeing that most of the time, it truly does work out.
Allison: Yeah, and this leads beautifully into the next area I wanted to talk to you about, which is this concept of shoulds, right? Like you should do this and you should do that. And, um, but that can really get us stuck. So can you share a little bit more about that?
Liz: Absolutely. So I actually used the word should in one of my examples where I was saying something along the lines of like, well, they should just know that they're supposed to help me. Couples get themselves in really messy spots when they start getting into this, it's almost like a stubbornness, where they're saying, I'm not going to talk about it because they should. I'm not going to bring that up because they should know better. I'm not going to go to their parents house anymore because their parents shouldn't act that way. I'm not going to let my partner know that they bummed me out because they should already know that; who wouldn't know that?
The second you start to get to that place, you get into a place that I call willfulness. Where you have put your feet in the ground, you're digging your heels in and you're saying, I'm just going to sit still here until you please me. The problem is, if your partner truly knew, if they did, most of the time they would do the right thing. Right? So if, if they really did know about the mental load, most of the time they'll want to talk to you about it.
If they do know, and they still don't care to do it, then that's actually really important information for you to hear. So if you're saying I'm not going to talk to my partner because they should X, Y, and Z, then what happens is you, you don't actually learn anything about your partner. But if you say to your partner, this is what I would really like from you, or this is how I've been feeling and they respond positively to that, well, that's wonderful. That's something you can really appreciate about them. If they respond with pushback, if they respond by ignoring you, that's also, that's hurtful information, but it's also really important to know as well.
Angela: Definitely. I really like this concept too, because I think it's, it shows up and I know you've talked about this in other platforms too, but not just in our, you know, like romantic or partnered relationships, but just everywhere.
Where we're constantly making this assumption that people should know what we're thinking, what we want, all of that. And it just really goes to show that if you really assess a lot of conflict and a lot of frustration and anxiety that we have just in our everyday interactions, a lot of it does come back to this, right.
It's just practical.
Liz: So much comes back to this and when we start thinking in the shoulds, what we do is we really block out communication and we also tend to then shame the other person. Because if you should know something or you should do something, then it means that you've made a mistake, right? Because you didn't do it or you didn't know it.
Rather than taking this position of: they didn't do it. I just need to let them know and then let me see how they respond. So by eliminating this, you're also probably reducing some defensiveness and some feelings of shame and disconnect that happen in relationships.
Angela: I'm thinking we're getting closer and closer to the holidays also after a really difficult over a year, right? So we're going to be coming up on probably really difficult conversations, even beyond what we're already having. But I know that, you know, this is also potentially at a time where people are more triggered with anxiety, especially for those who tend to avoid conflict or uncomfortable topics.
Right. So we really wanted to tap into your expertise and what tips you have for really starting these difficult conversations, both with our partner and others in our lives, because we know this is something like a lot of anxiety is coming up for folks.
Liz: Absolutely. So difficult conversations are going to be everywhere during the holiday season.
I think they always are, but especially now, because people have to decide what they're thinking about their health, what they feel comfortable with, what they feel disappointed by and adding that on to the layers of disappointment, discomfort, sadness, grief, all of that, that has already happened over the past year and some, right? So it's a lot. Something that is really, really important for people to be able to do when they're approaching a difficult conversation is to know how to enter it gently. And to enter it from a space where you want your partner to be your ally. You're not entering it immediately seeing them as the opposition.
What happens with really tough conversations sometimes is that we feel so anxious. We feel so overwhelmed, so worried that we're not going to get what we need, that we already address the other person like they're our enemy. So we'll say something like, “just a heads up, I don't know if your mom's called yet or not this year, but we are not going to her house again.”
What tends to happen then? And I see you're laughing because I know that's a very real life example probably for my own life. Um, but we, when we do that, what happens is the other person then feels on the defense. So if we start from an offensive position, we can not expect the other person to be in a neutral position. But we often act really surprised when they're defensive, right?
A person says, why do you always have to be mean about my mom? Or you know how much that means to me? Why are you talking to me like this? You're always so rude about the holidays. They have to defend their honor at this point, because they feel like you have offended them. And if you walk away saying, well, you just don't care about me because you should listen to what I had to say, that's not the reality of what just happened.
If instead you can go to your partner and say, Hey, honey, I really would like to talk about what's happening this year for Christmas and call out the elephant in the room. I know that last year we got in a big fight. We were both really disappointed. I want us to avoid that.
So that's taking a team approach, right? You're saying, I care about you. I want you to get what you need here. So can we talk about what we are going to do? And I would like to start by hearing what it is that you think. Let the other person talk first, because as soon as you let the other person talk, their defenses are down. Oh, you want to know what I have to think? Okay, great.
After you hear what they have to think, being able to validate it. Oh, that makes a lot of sense. I get that you want to see your mom. I know that really sucked last year, when you didn't get to. I'm going to tell you what I think we should do and then you talk about your position and then you want to try to find a win-win, which doesn't mean it looks exactly like either.
So you might've said, I want us to stay home and your partner might say, I want to go visit my mom. And what you need to do is say, well, what are the really core, important parts? So maybe your partner would say the really important part is that I still do the tradition that we did every year with my mom. And you might say the really important part is we're not around too many people because I just really don't want to risk getting anybody sick.
So maybe the win-win is well let's, let's video them in and we'll do the tradition, just like your family did. We'll do it different this year, but we'll do it at our house. So really being able to think through win-wins, is ultimately what you want to do around these difficult topics.
Angela: I love that and also one of the things I've heard you mentioned in the past too, is then you're speaking to it, but I want to call it out is being gentle yet firm, because I think for a lot of people, when they're already in that space where it's, you know, emotions are heightened or there's a topic that comes up, or, you know, I think this in, in that example that you're using, you know, with someone's partner, it is possible.
It's just taking time to kind of sit with what that means. And so I'd love you to speak to just a little bit of what, what is that? What does that look like for people to actually, you know, be firm, but also come across in a way that's welcoming another person to communicate with you.
Liz: I love that. It takes the ability to have other awareness and self-awareness to be gentle and firm. If you don't have both of those awarenesses, what happens is you are too far on one side or the other.
And so if all you have is other awareness, which means you're just thinking about the other person, you're going to be way too gentle. Okay. I don't want to upset you. I know you get disappointed. It breaks my heart. We don't have to do my thing because I can suck it up.
If you only have self-awareness, you're going to be way too firm. I don't care what you have to say about this. We are not doing what you want to do this year.
Those two things don't work in a relationship, especially an intimate relationship. And I'm not saying that either of them never have a time and a place. There's a time and a place to say to people, uh uh, not doing it. There's a time and a place to be too gentle and to suck things up.
But when you're having a tough conversation with your partner, you want to try to stay in this place of, I still see you as a human being with feelings, with needs, with thoughts. I'm still curious about you. I want to understand where you're coming from. And, I see myself as a person with thoughts and needs. And I want you to be curious about me.
And if you can take that stance in your conversations, what you can actually do is self-assess the entire time. It can be like, okay, wait for the last 45 minutes, I've only had awareness of my partner and we've talked about that. I'm going to stop action and I'm going to say, babe, thank you for sharing. I’d really like to be able to give my perspective now. Or, if you've been talking only for yourself for 45 minutes, can you have the capacity to go, oh, you know what, honey? I actually haven't heard from you. I'm really sorry. I think I came in a little too strong. Can you let me know what you think about this? So being able to do the dance of navigating both of those is really important.
I think you're muted.
Angela: Calling me out of my muteness here. It was really insightful. No, I was saying..
Liz: I was like, you look like you're saying something wonderful and I want to share this.
Angela: I'm really into this, but I would love for everyone to hear me. So, I love that other awareness and self-awareness, I think it's super easy and concrete for people to just say, Hey, I'm going to check myself real quick. Am I coming into this conversation with, with both of those things in mind. So I really appreciate you sharing that. One thing I wanted to just quickly insert, because I loved this recent live Instagram post, where you spoke to the concept of bids for connection, you knew I was going to bring this up.
It's so good and I know it's kind of a bigger topic, about how that comes into play, but I think understanding just that concept itself for our listeners might be really beneficial. So would you mind just like, high level speaking to what that is and sort of how it impacts our relationships, even in like your example that you gave, which is, and everybody go and watch this on her Instagram, on online communities, but also how it relates to just all of our relationships again.
Liz: Absolutely. It is one of my favorite topics to talk about, so we could have a whole nother episode on that because I love it so much.
Allison: Yes.
Liz: Human beings are wired to connect with other people, but we're also really wired for aggression too. So we are nuanced, we like to fight people and we like to love people. Neither one is actually the more dominant trait, they're both there.
But what happens is that in everyday life, we try to connect with other people and we do it in many different ways. And in lay person's terms, it's really attention-seeking. Totally normal to attention-seek. That is human. It would actually be strange if you're not attention-seeking, because it would mean that you've given up on human connection.
So, we attention-seek by running across the parking lot and opening a door for somebody because we want to smile at that person and know that we helped them. We help people carry things. We smile. We tell them that we like their shoes. We turn to our partner and ask them, you know, if they saw the same thing we saw on the news.
We sigh. Making a sigh as a bid for connection. When you go, ah, it's because you want somebody else to go. What's going on? Are you okay? We do it all day long, totally normal.
There are three ways that people respond to bids for connection. They either turn towards them, which would be, you know, I tell you, your shoes are cute and you say to me, oh my gosh, I got them at target. They were such a deal. That would be you turning towards me. I hold the door open for you. You smile. I turn to you and say, did you see what was on the news earlier that happened in Philadelphia? And you say, no, I didn't see it. What happened? Send me the link. Those are all examples of turning towards.
Unfortunately, because we're wired for aggression, sometimes we turn against. And we see whatever the other person is saying as a threat for some reason. And this really happens in intimate relationships, but it also weirdly happens out in community. Right? Like one time I was at Starbucks and I told someone that I really loved their hair and they rolled their eyes at me and like just kept making the coffee. And I, you know, as, as a therapist, I was like, okay, turning against me. I don't know what happened here, but something about the dynamic didn't feel good to this person. So we turn against.
The way it looks in intimate relationships is I might say something like, I really love that house that we always drive past. And because the house is really expensive my partner might feel threatened and worried that we're going to have to buy the house. So he might say, why would you even bring that up? You know, we can't ever afford that. It's so annoying how you keep talking about these houses. So that's turning against.
Third, we're distractible animals. We get very distracted. So sometimes we turn away and turning away means that we changed the topic. So I say, I really liked that house and you go, Hey, did you see that Miley Cyrus just put out a new record. No connection. Or you keep looking at your cell phone or you just don't respond at all.
So in our everyday interactions, we want to increase the amount that we're turning towards, because what research has shown us is that when people are turning towards their relationships, and I think this is pretty obvious, tend to be happier.
When people start turning against or turning away, they go into what's called the distance and isolation cascade. The way that looked with my Starbucks example was I never talked to that barista again, because I wasn't going to make myself vulnerable. I just gave my order and walked and stood in the corner. We didn't, we didn't develop a relationship.
The way it might look in my partnership is I might stop sharing my dreams with my partner, the comings and goings of my day. I just kind of shut up. And so you become very distant and isolated.
So in the big picture with our communities, we want to create connection, not isolation and distance. In our intimate partnerships, obviously you want connection. So you want to really look for the ways in which you can turn towards.
Allison: Absolutely. No, I mean really great advice and I hope that everybody that's listening, takes it and applies it because I think sometimes you do these things subconsciously you don't even realize where we need to just be that much more intentional about it.
So, Liz, this is the time in our show where we ask every single person that comes on, what matters to you most in your life right now?
Liz: Well, I think it's pretty clear, relationships.
I love, obviously I'm just like so deep in the relationship world right now, but in a more personal level, obviously what matters most to me is my family. So my husband, my son, they are my entire world. I love them. We are together all the time because we work from home. Um, but they are, they are what's most important to me.
Allison: Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Liz, it was such a pleasure. We also know that your book, I Want This to Work is coming out on, is it November 30th of this year?
Liz: Yeah!
Allison: Can you also share how our listeners can find out more about this and how to follow you on social media or otherwise.
Liz: Absolutely. So my book is called I Want This to Work. It's an inclusive guide for relationships and so if there's anything you want to know about building a healthier relationship with your partner and getting that relationship to work, definitely check out my book. You can buy it anywhere books are sold. There's a Kindle version, hardcover, audio, all of the, all of the possibilities. And if you would like to follow me on social media, you can follow me on Instagram @Lizlistens.
Allison: Awesome. Thank you so much, Liz. We really appreciate you.
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