In this episode, host Allison Walsh and Dr. Angela Phillips hold no reservations about all things mental health. They talk about the positives they’ve seen in the mental health space, what still needs to be done, and what Nobu and Advanced Recovery Systems can do to help. From work-life balance to setting boundaries, to being people first and employers second, this episode is a roundup of this season that you sure don’t want to miss.
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Social Media Handle: @allisonwalsh @humorist.therapist
Memorable Moments:
2:15 - So many of the individuals that we work with on a daily basis have also battled their own challenges throughout the course of their lives. We wear that as a badge of honor, not something that we're shameful about, which is just a beautiful place to be able to work and come from and to be able to share our lived experiences with others.
3:09 - We've had a lot of open, candid conversations, really asking very straightforward questions of how are you feeling? What's going on? How can I support you do you need time?
3:18 - Being compassionate and empathetic to people first, and the employer second was the most important thing and allowed us to create this safe space to have open conversations.
3:55 - Mental health is health.
4:09 - Having these conversations on a more regular basis allows people to feel very safe and be able to be very open about what they're dealing with so that we can get them what they need.
4:18 - Give people the space and resources they need. Or just purely checking in with each other to let them know that we care on a deeper level and that you're not just another person that's on the team. You're a very special person that we care about.
5:07 - One thing that a lot of us struggle with is the difficulty to decipher or determine what's appropriate for us to share and what are we really going to feel comfortable with.
11:42 - We don't have cookie-cutter approaches. We were very focused on what are the needs of all the people that were taken care of in our centers or online with Telehealth.
15:16 I've seen so much movement around big, small and medium-sized groups and companies wanting to provide their people with what they need. And they're really looking for a solution that's really going to meet all of those needs, which is why we love Nobu, why we love Advanced Recovery Systems, who we work with and for because we're able to really provide a lot of that.
18:26 - When it comes to setting boundaries around work-life balance, it’s really about being intentional about that transition from one environment or role to another, and then being consistent with that, and really respecting that time.
20:03 - Boundaries are the greatest act of self-respect.
Dear Mind, You Matter is brought to you by NOBU, new mental health, and wellness app. To download NOBU, visit the app store or Google Play.
This podcast is hosted by Allison Walsh and Dr. Angela Phillips. It is produced by Allison Walsh, Savannah Eckstrom, and Nicole LaNeve. If you’re interested in being a guest on this podcast, please visit www.therecoveryvillage.com/dearmindyoumatter.
Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Allison: 00:02
Hello and welcome to the dear mind, do you matter podcast? My name is Allison Walsh. I'm a longtime mental health advocate and vice president at Advanced Recovery Systems. On each episode, I will be joined by my colleague and clinical expert, Dr. Angela Phillips. This show along with our mental health and wellness app, Nobu are just some of the ways we're working to provide you with actionable tips and tools to take really good care of yourself each and every day. So sit back, relax and grab your favorite note taking device, it's time to fill your mind with things that matter.
Allison: 00:35
All right, well, welcome to today's episode, Angela. I'm so excited that we're here together. Me too. Welcome
Allison: 00:41
to you to Allison. Oh, we
Allison: 00:44
get to do a little q&a, a little interview with each other, which is so fun. So I know that we've got some really important questions today and topics that we want to discuss, really around the changes that we've seen in mental health and what we're dealing with now as we come out of this pandemic. But I'm, I'm excited.
Allison: 01:00
Me too. I can't wait, I'm just going to jump in because I have some good questions for you. And I know we got some good ones for. So this is gonna be fun. What we're talking about here is so important. And Allison has such a critical voice and all of this people who are listening right now. So I'm going to ask her a few questions. And I think it's, again, really important to kind of reflect on the overarching theme here. But how this really trickles down to those of us who might be leading the charge like she is among and across many teams. And then those of us who are on those teams are who are just a part of the bigger picture who are working with others to really form these fantastic teams, the workforce in general. So I just really want to make sure that we're all listening in on this conversation, because it's important to all of us that we do some jumping in Allison, you lead the charge, like I said, for a few teams, how do you feel like the role of mental health has changed for you? And also those that you oversee in the past few years, even if you can whittle that down? Yeah, I mean, that's a
Allison: 01:59
big question, but one that I am willing to tackle for sure. I love the fact that we're talking about how this is relevant to everyone. I think we've also been very fortunate to work in a behavioral health care company where there tends to be a little bit more dialogue around how we're feeling and what's going on. And so many of the individuals that we work with on a daily basis have also battled their own challenges throughout the course of their lives. We wear that as a badge of honor, not something that we're shameful about, which I think is just a beautiful place to be able to work and come from to be able to share our lived experiences with others, when it comes to what's really changed over the last few years. And I think I noticed this, we talked about this when we did our Burnout series. But so many of us our own mental health symptoms and the things that we were experiencing, and what my team was experiencing looked different than what it had looked like before. People might have struggled with one situation, or one diagnoses or one set of symptoms in the past for something, it was showing up in different ways, right? heightened levels of stress. Yes, some anxiety raging, in some cases, grief, loss, trauma, a lot of things being triggered. And but what I think we did that I really am so grateful for is we've had a lot of open, candid conversations, really asking very straightforward questions of how are you feeling? What's going on? How can I support you do you need time, right, being compassionate and empathetic people first, employer second, I think was the most important thing and allowed us to create this safe space to have open conversations. I know for a fact it helped with retention, it helped with us being able to get people connected to where they needed to go to be able to pour into them in new ways to find things that could help them and allow them the chance to just take some time and do what they needed to do for themselves. So I like the fact that we created a little bit more space there internally for that. And that's going to continue because mental health is health. And we all just collectively went through something that was traumatic with the pandemic, and all of the things that came with it. But we're faced with triggers and issues every single day. And so I think becoming more accepting and inclusive. And having these conversations on a more regular basis allows people to feel very safe, and to be able to be very open about what they're dealing with so that we can get them what they need. And give them the space, give them the help give them the resources, or just purely checking in with each other to let them know that we care on a deeper level and that you're not just another person that's on the team. You're a very special person that we care about. So that's been really important.
Allison: 04:30
Absolutely. I agree. It's so important to just open up that dialogue, even if it doesn't come out right away. It's kind of planting the seed. It's repeating the process. And I think that's where a lot of people may go wrong is like we have one conversation and that's it. We had a mental health day or we gave our folk we gave our folks a mental health day. It didn't really seem to help or trying to see what's going to work but you really do have to commit to it and be persistent with that and open that up and also engage in it yourself as a leader. I know because I've seen this from you I think everyone has at this point, Google, Allison Wilson, you will see, you charge that conversation. You keep it going, you keep it open. But I think one thing that a lot of us struggle with, especially when the person that may be struggling now we're on a team, and we have an amazing leader, we have amazing folks that we're working with, we might want to share or maybe as a leader we want to share, but it may be difficult for us to decipher or determine like, what's appropriate for us to share? What are we really going to feel comfortable with? And we just had an amazing conversation with Ross Sabo about this, right? So how do you know or gauge what's appropriate to share? Or if you're thinking about someone who might be listening to us right now? And what that might look like for them? What are some ideas or tools that you might give them that might help them figure that out that level of comfort and what to personally share in these conversations?
Allison: 05:48
Right, because there is a line to right there are those professional boundaries to a certain extent, right. And I always use a reference of I would much prefer to speak from a scar than from an open wound. And so if I'm currently experiencing something that's deep, or it's hard, or it's raw, I'm not ready to talk about it yet. I'm not there to process with them as though they're my therapist, I need to do that work first, right. And I've got that on demand, which is great. I do the work so that I can have the conversations because I do think it's really important for people to see that they are human. And the only way they're going to feel that way and feel seen and heard and understood is when they can have those conversations. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction or mental health issues, we encourage you to reach out to us today. Advanced Recovery Systems is a leading behavioral health care company with locations across this country. Don't hesitate, call us today at 855-409-1753. That's 855-409-1753 help is just a phone call away. If you notice that somebody sharing something with you that maybe your natural tendency is to say, Yeah, me too. Sometimes, that's all you need. You don't need to get into all the details. And again, it's not about you when they're sharing. It's about them. So you can acknowledge it and say, I understand I've been there, how else can I help you, immediately turning it back to them so that they can continue to share with you what they need to share. And then they can be directed or guided to what's next for them. So that's been a really important thing. So I hope that's
Allison: 07:23
helpful. Absolutely. And actually, that sort of makes me think a little bit about when I went through training as a therapist, one of the things that we talk about in terms of transference, right? So when we're working with clients, maybe things are coming up for us, or maybe we think, hey, this one sliver of information might actually be really helpful for me to share. That comes from my personal experience. And there's some taboo, there's some stigma around some of these thoughts of therapist sharing, you know, their personal experience. But one of the things that I always keep and have kept in the back of my mind is, am I saying this to help someone else? Or am I saying this to help me and I think that's so closely aligns with speaking from scars versus open wounds, like you said, and I love that, because it really just if we can sit back and kind of think I'll be it sometimes very quickly, if we're in the moment. So am I saying this? I feel really compelled because I think it's really going to help you? Or is it really because I need this space to talk. And if it is, let's take that to therapy, or let's continue to work through that. And sometimes we will fumble and we may overshare and creating that space too. Or we know if that does happen because I'm trying to be vulnerable? How am I going to handle that? And do I have the space to talk about that too? Do I have a friend? Or do I have a therapist or someone to communicate with? So all really great info.
Allison: 08:36
Thank you. Oh, and I mean, speaking of therapists, I feel like this is a great segue. You are the director of telehealth, and you have lunch with therapists right underneath you that are really teaching others how to find balance. I'm sure you're seeing some interesting trends when it comes to this. So would you mind sharing more about what you're seeing from your seat as well?
Allison: 08:57
Yes, I love this because the experience that I've had just working in so many different environments, from inpatient mental health, psychiatric recovery, sort of environment, community centers, and mental health, behavioral health, just facilities in lots of different domains, and now telehealth, research all of these areas I've had the opportunity to work in. One thing that I love that I'm seeing is that we're finally as therapists practicing what we're preaching, we're trying to get what we deserve in terms of compensation and terms of respect in terms of benefits on sort of like workforce level, but then on a personal level, we are also really fighting to say, I'm not going to burn myself out and work 12 hours on an inpatient setting. I'm getting paid for seven or eight hours and just always keep beating myself up that the work is always going to be there and I'm never going to feel done. We need to have better tools, better strategies, better leadership, better programs, better infrastructure, right and So we can always make improvements. But I think just like that pressure is on a variety of different roles and fields, I think that's one silent area, when, as a therapist, when you start out in sort of internships and you're building up into private practice or wherever you end up, it's one thing that we continue to sweep under the rug, as we're taking care of others. And we don't really focus on ourselves, unless we really have strong leadership that shows us that, or we have a mentor that we see sort of really handhold us through that process, how we can take care of others and take care of ourselves because we can't do our best job unless we're doing that, right. So that's one thing that I've really started noticing is that my therapists will speak up, they'll say, Hey, I can't do this, or that's too many clients for me, or I'm taking vacation, which I never used to you're very much, right. And so now again, we're just fighting to sort of claim that space and get that back, but also really tending more to ourselves. And I know for myself personally, as well, I'm not just teaching things that I know to be true, but also that I've learned are true for myself. And so I think in doing that, alongside amazing clinicians, I think we can all speak from that place of growth. If one thing that COVID And a lot of other things have brought up for us, it's really lending to that and creating more space for the helpers to really take that space and own it. So it's a great question. Thank you, Alison. And so that makes me think of when we're looking at the leadership piece, and those that you are guiding and teaching and just turning into these amazing employees part of the workforce that you're overseeing, and you've got a lot of hats that you wear, what are you seeing in terms of performance issues the most? And how does this differ from what you've seen in the past,
Allison: 11:41
I think the big thing for us has been our real push to see people take the time that they've earned and they deserve, similar to what you were talking about with therapists taking the time. So naturally, our team community outreach, business development, the individuals that have the privilege of working alongside their phones rang all the time when our phones ring at somebody in need. So there's this really challenging disconnect. For us, we feel like we can't shut down, but if we miss the call, and so really putting the things in place, so people feel like they can take the time they can truly shut down, which is awesome people going on cruises where there's no cell service. That's amazing, right, or going on a trip and complete this connection. And I think that us really encouraging that to happen also became a priority, because we could see people still checking their emails, still doing things like while they're on PTO, and like, No, you need this time, because if you do take this time, you're gonna come back, you're gonna feel so much more refreshed, you're gonna feel like you honored yourself, and you're doing the things that you need to do. So and I've also seen much more incorporation of sporadic days, not even with any agenda, but just like an intentional, like I'm taking a day because I can or they're flexing their time, so that they can be more accommodating to their own life's needs. And naturally, I have a team that are so focused on helping everyone else, but they've got to help themselves that they want to be able to do what they do. And so I'm really glad to see that because I was prior to pandemic, prior to everything was seeing people just run, burn the candle on both ends. And that's not sustainable. I mean, I want people to be with us for the long haul. And a big part of that is how they take care of themselves and what they do outside of the time that they're working their day to day. And so that's been really important. Also, I think the other thing that really got a lot of focus and attention is what else can we do to meet the unique needs of the individuals and which are on our team, really listening and pouring into their cups to in the way they need to be poured into and making sure that it's a very individualized approach just like we take with our patients. We don't have cookie cutter approaches, we were very focused on what are the needs of all the people that were taking care of in our centers or online with telehealth, when it comes to our people to what do they need? What makes them tick, what matters to them? How can we continue to support them, develop them, pour into them so that they can love what they're doing, that they're fully supported?
Allison: 14:00
Absolutely, this is such a missing piece that we've seen in the past when it's ironic, right, we treat sort of the workforce or historically have like, it's one big group of people that have one big need. We clearly know that our clients and patients and people that we work for and with have such individual needs, like you're saying, but we just don't approach it that way with the workforce. Thankfully, we are starting to, and it shouldn't be seen as an inconvenience. So as someone who's leading a team, the minute we start looking at it like that, we throwing all of that out the window, everything that we're saying is important about our clients and just humans in general, not the same case for our employees, for those who work with us and who really hold us up every day and who are the core aspects of how we get things done and what makes the most of a difference in anyone's life or experience that we're working towards around us. So that's so important. I completely agree. And I love what you said.
Allison: 14:59
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Allison: 15:43
You and I work a lot around, trying to build relationships with those who are in the workforce that want to create more of a connection with their workforce, their employees, those that they serve, and get them the resources that they need. So thankfully, we have seen for myself, specifically, I've seen so much movement around meeting with a lot of really big and small and medium sized groups and companies and networks. And they really want to provide their people what they need. And they're really looking for a solution that's really going to meet all of those needs, which is, of course why we love Nobu, why we love Advanced Recovery Systems who we work with and for, because we're able to really provide a lot of that. But I think that's been so exciting to see how that conversation has continued. And it's not just dropped off. Because that was my biggest fear is that we start talking about mental health like we have in the past when certain things come up. And then we just forget about it. And we go right back to doing what we're doing before, and not offering really, really solid support, and trying to grow that network for our workforce. And I'm really glad to say that we've continued a lot of those conversations. And although we might not be the solution for people, it's really clear and obvious that they're looking for whatever that solution is going to be for them. So that's what I've seen, and I think is so exciting. Anything on your end, what else have you seen?
Allison: 16:58
Yeah, I mean, just to continue that piece, too. I'm just so grateful that we're seeing employers be so much more proactive when it comes to taking care of their people, because it's not something that can be ignored. I know we've looked at a lot of data, we've read a lot of studies. And the reality is most people have struggled with some type of mental health issue or disorder or challenge. And it is part of the employers responsibility to provide resources just like they create the opportunity for medical envision, and all this other stuff, like make sure your mental health toolbox is full to place. And again, not everything is going to meet the needs of every person. And Angela, we've been on hundreds of calls with employers and EAP is over the last year are talking to them about what do you need, what's currently missing? What else are your people asking for. And I really, really applaud the organizations that schedule time with us that shear we need additional support for XY and Z. And we're looking for augmented support when it comes to teletherapy. Or we need our people to be able to access support fast and in a click of a button. And so this is part of normalizing the conversation and making sure that people have what they need when they need it. And meeting all of the unique needs not just saying this one therapist is going to take care of all of our people. And this one plan is going to meet all of those needs, or this one app is going to do it all right. So you sometimes you have to have multiple resources in order to meet the needs of all. So I'm loving that. But I think there's one other question that I want to get to today. And it's really about the boundary side of things, right? It's the B word. And it's an important one. And it's one that I know that I get asked about all of the time, whether I'm on panels, or I'm just speaking on the topic in general. But this one is one I want you to marinate on Angela, when it comes to setting boundaries around work life and the other b word balance if there is even a thing, what suggestions or tips do you have when it comes to creating those boundaries, so people can shut down and they can restore themselves take good care of themselves. Any suggestions for those that are listening today?
Allison: 18:50
All right, we'll go one for one here, because I know you have so many, but I know the biggest one for me and that I find a lot of the people that I work with find to be really helpful, too. It's just especially because of the environment that we've shifted in and out of some people might be working remotely, some people may be wearing lots of hats. I mean, we all are constantly. But for me, it's really being intentional about that transition from one environment or role to another, and then being consistent with that, and really respecting that time. So we don't always have this opportunity, right? So I work from home a lot. And so if I'm working from home and I'm literally in my home, how am I going to have that time to transition. It's literally the room next to me where my crying baby is or where all my kids are running around or where my other family members might be or just where a lot of other responsibilities are. That might be really stressful for me to think about. But I think even if we're in that situation, or if we have a really long drive to get home from work, or one of the many things that could come into play throughout a day, what's one thing that you can do to reset before entering back into that environment or before transitioning to work that will really allow you to make that transition? That could be as some Bull as doing a meditation, driving home from work, what can I do? What can I listen to? Is there a podcast I really enjoy? Is there a friend I haven't caught up with that can really bring me into a space that I want to be in if I've had a long day? Or is there someone you haven't talked to in a long time that I might be able to reach out to and lend some support to whatever the situation is? Or I think someone really needs to sit and personalize that for them. What is that going to look like for me, so that I can make that transition a little bit more effective in terms of setting those boundaries that way, I'm not just telling myself I need to flip a switch, that's not actually going to happen, right? I need to give myself the space and time to do that a little bit more. What about you?
Allison: 20:37
Yeah, no, that's so important. I noticed the transition was very difficult for me for many months and years, really, when we were living and working it out. For everybody listening, when you view boundaries, as the greatest act of self respect, you put these things in place for you. And so honoring yourself, when you notice if you're gaining any type of or harboring any type of resentment, or you're getting flustered, when people are asking you to go do things that you don't want to do, or you're feeling pulled in a million directions, that's a pretty good sign that you need some boundaries in place. And I know that there are so many well intentioned humans that we surround ourselves with that are givers and want to just continue to be yes, people and help and do all the things. But you have to put those boundaries in place. Because otherwise you become drained and depleted, people aren't trying to do that. It's just when you're a giving person and you want to help, it can be really easy to stop taking care of yourself. And so putting the boundaries in place. For me, one big thing was creating a boundary at six o'clock, I used to answer the phone all the time after six o'clock, but I only have a couple hours with my kids after work before bedtime. And so sorry, unless something is on fire, or there's an emergency, I'm not going to respond and not as my time with my family. And I noticed that I felt so much better coming in the next day feeling like I had that time to shut down. I wasn't resenting the fact that it was go go go go go. It allowed me to be mom and be present and be wife and do all the things that I needed to do. Because it was an intentional boundary that I set. And everybody respected it. You teach people how to treat you by the boundaries that you set. And so it's our responsibility to create those boundaries. Otherwise, it's just going to continue to deplete you if it's not something that you want to be doing. Absolutely, no, it's
Allison: 22:19
so important. I love that example to what I did was I took apps off my personal phone, put them on a work phone, and I leave the work phone where it should be at work. So nice. But yeah, you know, there are so many tweaks that we need to make. And sometimes it's really big changes. That's a huge shift and your everyday routine to go from having a lot of that time and having that responsive behavior to now all of a sudden you're not going to be doing that. And to really see that shift and really appreciate what you've done for yourself is such a big, big step big move that so many of us can take and appreciate. Allison, this was so fun. I love this. You're amazing. Let's do it again.
Allison: 22:59
Oh, of course. I think I know where to find you. So I'll see you next time.
Angela: 23:02
All right. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you're not already subscribed, we hope you join us regularly. And please leave us a five star review wherever you get your podcasts if you enjoyed the show. We hope that this podcast is beneficial to you and your wellness journey. Dear mind you matter is brought to you by Nobu, a new mental health and wellness app. You can download it today using the link in our show notes. We will talk to you next time and until then remember you and your mind matter